Why Daily Planning Fails Women's ADHD Brains with Megan Sumrell

If you've ever felt like you're doing all the things but still falling behind, this episode is for you. Today, I'm joined by time management expert Megan Sumrell, creator of the TOP Program, who challenges one of the most common productivity habits many of us rely on: daily planning. Megan explains why traditional productivity systems often fail women—especially women with ADHD—and how they can leave us feeling overwhelmed, guilty, and stuck in a cycle of constantly playing catch-up.

In our conversation, we explore a more realistic approach to planning that accounts for uncertainty, mental load, energy fluctuations, caregiving responsibilities, and the realities of everyday life. Megan shares practical strategies for reducing decision fatigue, prioritizing what matters most, and creating a weekly planning rhythm that helps you feel more in control without striving for perfection. If you're ready to stop reacting and start planning in a way that actually works for your brain, press play.

Episode Highlights

[0:00] Why planning by the day may be causing more anxiety than flexibility

[2:11] The hidden dangers of relying on daily to-do lists

[3:10] Why traditional productivity systems leave many women feeling organized on paper but overwhelmed in reality

[5:18] The guilt cycle: unfinished tasks, self-blame, and time debt

[7:59] How unrealistic daily planning sets you up for failure before the day even begins

[9:30] Decision fatigue, ADHD, and why making choices all day drains your energy

[13:35] The cognitive load women carry—and why automation matters

[15:31] Productive procrastination and chasing quick dopamine wins

[17:09] Why weekly planning creates flexibility instead of rigidity

[20:35] What to do when your calendar is already overbooked

[23:14] Practical strategies for prioritizing when everything feels important

[28:47] Hormones, energy cycles, and creating plans that work with your body

[32:49] Managing planning and communication in relationships and neurodivergent households

[38:10] Protecting personal time, exercise, and self-care without guilt

[42:05] Paper planners vs. digital tools: finding the right system for your lifestyle

[46:31] How to bounce back into your routine after vacation or time away

[50:41] The biggest mindset shift: a plan is a tool, not a report card

[54:40] Inside Megan’s TOP Program and why a planner alone won’t solve overwhelm

Links & Resources

• Megan Sumrell's Website: https://megansumrell.com
• Follow Megan on Instagram: @megansumrell

About Megan Sumrell

Megan Sumrell is a Time Management Expert, Founder & CEO, and creator of the TOP Program and TOP Planner. After spending more than 20 years in corporate process improvement, she discovered that traditional productivity systems weren't designed for the realities women face—including caregiving responsibilities, mental load, and constant uncertainty. Today, she helps overwhelmed women create harmony in their lives through planning systems built specifically for how women's brains work, transforming unrealistic to-do lists into flexible, achievable plans.

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Transcript

Megan Sumrell: 0:00

Think my life is so uncertain, all I can do is plan by the day, and therefore it keeps me more flexible, but it's actually causing a lot of kind of horrible things, if you will, downstream. And so I've often been quoted as saying a task list is not a plan, and if you're operating from a daily list, or even what you think as a daily plan, it isn't actually going to allow you to keep up with everything that's going on. And so this is why I always say a task list is not a plan, and it's going to continue to keep you stuck in what I like to call just in time, living where everything's getting done just in time right before it's done. And that in itself, creates its own level of anxiety and overwhelm if we're constantly operating in that last minute mode as well.

Brooke Schnittman: 0:50

Welcome to successful with ADHD. I'm Brooke Schmidt, let's get started. Welcome back to another episode of successful with ADHD today. I have Megan summerl, who's a time management expert and helps overwhelmed women create harmony in their lives through planning systems built specifically for how women's brain work. You heard it. This one is for women and planning. And after spending over 20 years in corporate process improvement, Megan discovered that conventional time management fails women because it was designed for the realities of caregiving, mental load and high uncertainty. I'm sure this hits for many of you listening. So as a creator of the Top program and the top planner, Megan teaches women to turn their unrealistic to do lists into realistic, flexible plans. So Megan, you are going to heal all of our time management

Megan Sumrell: 1:45

today, correct? That's a tall order, but I'm going to give it my best shot.

Brooke Schnittman: 1:48

Yes, I love it. And before we got on here, I was on your podcast, and we're talking about this, and I totally concur with the claims that you are making in just a few minutes and but you state that planning by the day is actually the problem.

Megan Sumrell: 2:11

It does, it creates a ton of overwhelm and anxiety and inflexibility that people don't recognize. They think my life is so uncertain, all I can do is plan by the day, and therefore it keeps me more flexible, but it's actually causing a lot of kind of horrible things, if you will, downstream. And so I've often been told or quoted as saying, a task list is not a plan, and if you're operating from a daily list, or even what you think is a daily plan, it isn't actually going to allow you to keep up with everything that's going on. Yeah, and

Brooke Schnittman: 2:49

for the people who are in now or not now, like many of us, ADHD ers, it's hard to plan to plan, but we know we need to plan to plan, right, because there's that overflow. So why do you think that so many high achieving women feel organized on paper but chaotic in real life?

Megan Sumrell: 3:10

Oh, that's a great question. So a lot of the reason why people will quote feel organized on paper really ties back to what a lot of these traditional written by men productivity and planning systems teach. So if we go back to I kind of think of like Franklin Covey as one of the leaders in that space, the Michael Hyatts, when you look at the and I went through those, you know, 30 years ago in my 20s, but my life looked very different 30 years ago in my 20s. And what they're ultimately kind of prescribing, and the planners that they sell you, what they offer you is a page per day where you write down everything that needs to get done for the day. And in most of them, then they tell you identify your top three, which I could go on that for a really long time. And then you're just magically, they tell you, now your next step is do the top three things first, and then everything else after it. And so you fill out that structured piece of paper. And so on paper, you look and feel very organized. You're like, got it. Here's what I am doing today. But then reality hits right? The interruption, the sick kid, the car that broke down, the task that took longer than you thought, or, if you are ADHD, the time blindness of something that you thought was going to take 10 minutes, but takes three hours. And suddenly, an hour after you've done this beautiful thing that looks organized on paper, you realize none of that's happening, right? You're pulled in 10 different directions, and then you go to bed feeling like you failed, and then you wake up the next day, and what's the first thing you do? You rewrite everything that didn't get done yesterday, right? And now you add to it. And so we're stuck, and it keeps you in what I call time debt, because. The list will never get done, and so you just get stuck in this perpetual loop of feeling like you're always behind. So then the ticker tape starts running, the anxiety creeps in, but you're looking at this beautiful planner that you wrote everything and identified your top three, and so there's a complete disconnect.

Brooke Schnittman: 5:18

Yeah, I am a big believer that we need persistence in consistency. But to your point, especially with women with ADHD and mid age women, there's hormones, there's burnout, there's energy crashes, there's the child interruption, there's right urgency, emergencies and what we talk about that, you talk about the debt the next day, but what about all the guilt that comes?

Megan Sumrell: 5:51

Yeah, you're going to have a ton of guilt, because you're going to think, because, unfortunately you go out. I mean, look at social media. There are people painting this picture of look, I follow this planner and I get it all done. So then we're left going, well, it must just be me. I'm not doing it right, right? So that means I either have lack of willpower, or I have lack of discipline or lack of knowledge, whatever fill in that blank, we instantly, because we're conditioned that way as women to always self blame. And the reality is, and then people will also think, Oh, I just wasn't born with that gene, right? I'm not the type a person. But the fact is, I wasn't either. You can ask my mom, this is not like I was not born with this gift time management and planning is a skill that is a taught and learned skill, but nobody's teaching it. We're not teaching it in schools. High schools aren't teaching it. Colleges aren't teaching it. And unless you happen to land yourself in a job where they have courses and provide training in it, it's just assumed that you're just going to figure it out. So I always like to tell women like, hey, if no one ever taught you to read, would you lay in bed at night and beat yourself up because you didn't know how to read? No, you'd probably be like, Oh, I just No one taught me. Well, the fact is, the same is true with time management and planning principles. The fact is, likely you have never been taught these skills, and if maybe you thought you were because you took one of those courses or bought one of those planners, you were learning a different language than the language you speak, because what they're teaching you is a system that works for a nine to five masculine uninterrupted work day. That's not the reality that most women and especially if you have ADHD, that's just not your reality. So you're trying to learn a language that you don't speak.

Brooke Schnittman: 7:48

I love that. So how does daily planning, besides the debt and the masculine energy, how does it set people up for failure before the day even starts?

Megan Sumrell: 7:59

Yeah, so a couple different things at play here. First off, when you make that list for the day, I guarantee I know I used to do this. You never take the time to analyze it and write down, how long do each one of these things take? Right? Nobody does that math, nor do we then. And let's say you did. Maybe you're the magic unicorn that says, You know what, Megan I do, and I'd say, okay, but then do you take the time to look at your calendar and look at what's on there, along with addressing there's likely pockets of your day that things can't be getting done because maybe you're doing school drop off or pick off soccer practice, whatever? Do you ever take the time to do the math to see is this even feasibly possible? Because when I force someone to do that to prove the point, I have yet to have anyone say, Yeah, this list would have even been possible today. So chances are your list is likely unrealistic from the get go. So even if you were the best planner in the world, there's no way you're going to be able to be able to get it done and the time available for the day. Now, the second thing at play here is really interesting, and it has to do with decision fatigue. So if you are someone that notices as the day goes on, your ability to make good choices starts to dwindle, right? I can walk by the sleeve of Thin Mints at noon, but man, by 6pm I'll just eat the whole thing again. As women, we blame ourselves. I don't have enough willpower. I don't have enough control. Well, here is what is leading helping really cause that. So we wake up every day with a kind of limited amount of really good decision making skills in our brain, and we really only restore that when we go to bed at night. So it's kind of, think of it like a gas tank, and you can't refill it till you're going to bed. Well, one of the most taxing things that we can ask our brain to do is make decisions. And I know from the two in. ADHD people I live with decision making is a fight, flight or freeze state like

Brooke Schnittman: 10:07

especially, especially when everything is of equal priority, everything

Megan Sumrell: 10:13

feels equal priority as a

Brooke Schnittman: 10:14

list, especially, yes, as a list and as an inattentive woman, it's even more real Absolutely.

Megan Sumrell: 10:22

Now, the other part of decision making that's really interesting is the more things, and I'm sure as soon as I say it, you'll be like, of course, the more things you have to choose between, the even harder your brain is working. So you know, Brooke, if we're here and I'm like, Hey, do you want the chocolate chip cookie or the sugar cookie? Like, easy choice. But then if we walk into a bakery with 22 cookies, and I'm like, pick which one you want,

Brooke Schnittman: 10:46

over stimulated over paralyzing, right?

Megan Sumrell: 10:49

So the the amount of energy or gas that your brain is burning to make a decision when there's more things to choose against, is what depletes you. And so this is why, when you have a list, let's say you do that brain dump or whatever in the morning, and maybe you have 17 things on there for the day. That's not an unreasonable amount, right? Because there's probably things that take two minutes and things that take two hours. Well, as soon as you make the list, what's the first thing that we do? We look at it to decide, what do I do first? So the longer that list, the harder your brain is working to make the choice, which is why, if you are someone that really struggles with that to your point, you're like, I gotta get hell out of here, right? I'm just leaving. So that's why you're like, I'm drained. Forget the list. Let me. Let me go for a walk first, to quote, clear my mind. Then I'll yeah,

Brooke Schnittman: 11:41

wait, no, I say say with ADHD, we right? And this is, I say this with love, because I've been there. You wait so long that opportunities pass you by. You ask everyone you know for their decisions, and then you feel like you came to a decision, and then you ask a different person, and they give you a different opinion, and then you make a different decision, right? Decision, right? Or you make an impulsive decision, and it's not the right decision, right? Or you chat GBT, or AI, everything, right? Like you said, this was the decision, but I feel this way. Okay, you You're right. So it makes it even worse, right?

Megan Sumrell: 12:18

100% Yeah. So once you've done all of your process and you pick something, you do it, you check it off, well, then what's the very next thing you do? Now you're back looking at 16 things, and this cycle repeats. And so the longer your list, and the more anxious you get around decision making, the quicker you hit decision fatigue in your day. And so then what starts to happen is, as the day dwindle dwindles by the decisions about how you're spending your time start to just get farther and farther off track, which then now cue the guilt, right? Because now it's the end of the day, and you're looking back at how you spent your time and you're thinking, I failed yet again, I did something wrong. Well, the fact is, you were forcing you don't realize it when you make this list, but you're forcing yourself to make micro decisions all day long, one after the other, and especially for people with ADHD, it's a it's 10 times more impactful than someone that is neurotypical. You know, I don't have ADHD, but I will still hit decision fatigue real quick if I'm operating in list making mode. But making decisions comes easier to me than my family. Oh, yeah.

Brooke Schnittman: 13:35

And as a woman, you already have so much cognitive load, we want to be able to automate this as much as possible. So our executive functions are working.

Megan Sumrell: 13:43

Yeah. So, and then the final thing that's also at play here is oftentimes, if you have found yourself, or maybe it was a day where you maintained some good, hyper focused and you really executed some on that list, what often happens is, at the end of the day, we look back at the few things that are left on the list that we didn't do, and then we feel even worse because we're like, those were the ones that were most important, but I didn't do them, and here's why we don't do those. So again, when we're looking at the list, fight flight or freeze, which I know for my loved ones, it's freeze like, Oh dear God, or flight, anything to avoid making the decision. So then our brain does what it's designed to do, which is, when we feel that way, it's like, I need a dopamine hit. I need to feel better. So if you're thinking about a list, the way we feel better is to get a check mark there as quick as we possibly can, which means we subconsciously scan for what's the easiest, quickest thing I can get done on this list. And so we inadvertently are operating from quickest win, which usually the quickest win does not correlate to the thing that was the really important thing, the thing that feels hard. Hard that if we if we were in our best decision making mode, we would be choosing that one thing over those seven small things. But in the moment, we can't, because we need the dopamine hit because we're feeling really anxious. So then you compound that day after day, what starts to happen is we get further and further and further away or behind of those projects, or those goals, or those dreams, and they were like, but I, but I'm busy. I'm doing a lot of things, which is true,

Brooke Schnittman: 15:31

productive procrastination, yeah, yeah.

Megan Sumrell: 15:33

And for some people, it may not, not even be procrastination. So it's like, no, they were things that had to get done, but they weren't, but they were mentioning, so, yeah, you know, maybe your Tupperware Cabinet could have been a hot mess for another three days, and you could have gotten that creative project worked on. That's my go to is my Tupperware cabinet. When I'm like, oh, organization. That's where I go. I organize, yeah, and a small, small that I can do in like 10 minutes, yes. Or you

Brooke Schnittman: 15:59

think it's small, and then it doesn't end up being small for an ADHD year, and then you're stuck with all your Tupperware out and you don't want to put it back and organize. And now it's even more of a mess.

Megan Sumrell: 16:10

Yes, yes, yes. So our intent with this list making is good, and the fact we don't want to forget things, let's write it down on paper so we get it out of our brain. And hey, all of these productivity bros are sharing their daily productivity one sheet that has the space for the brain dump and has the space to identify your top three. So we're like, I'm doing the things. But why isn't this working? And so this is why I always say a task list is not a plan, and it's going to continue to keep you stuck in what I like to call just in time, living right where everything's getting done just in time, right before it's done. And that in itself, creates its own level of anxiety and overwhelm if we're constantly operating in that last minute mode as well.

Brooke Schnittman: 16:59

Absolutely it's reactive, not proactive. If planning by the day doesn't work, as we're stating, what should people be planning instead?

Megan Sumrell: 17:09

I start everyone on a weekly planning rhythm. So I think, and it doesn't mean it has to be Monday to Sunday either. You know, there are women that are I have a bunch of women that are nurses that do shift work, and so maybe their Mondays and Tuesdays are off, so they plan Wednesday to Tuesday, whatever you want it to look like. Give yourself permission for your life, but to really be planning out in that seven day window. The way I teach weekly planning, we start with a five step basic system, and then once you get comfortable with that, we graduate to the advanced weekly planning, which is a 10 step process, and before everyone freaks out so like, I'm so busy. How do I have time to do that? I do this in about 15 minutes every week. Once you build the system, the planning becomes kind of autopilot. But what this allows you to do is, when we're planning in longer pockets of time, especially for women, we need to have space to absorb uncertainty. We need to have space to absorb emergencies. If you are neurodivergent, you absolutely need to have space to absorb the things that took longer than you thought, or the distraction that pulled you off in a different direction. And so if you're only planning within a 24 hour window, if the wheels fall off at 1pm you don't have space to regroup, your only option is now I'm staying up till midnight, or now I'm going to wake up tomorrow at 4am whereas when you learn how to plan in a seven day window and you learn how to protect the right amount. I call it uncertainty time for each person. You learn how to build that into your plan. Then what happens is, it's one o'clock and the wheels fall off. Well now in the moment, you can stop and say, Okay, how am I adjusting the rest of this week? I see I have a pocket of protected space, maybe tomorrow or the day after, I can now move what I was doing into that space, or say I'm going to come back and finish it up, or move what I was going to do after into there, because I'm in a flow state and I don't want to break it right. Whatever the reason is, if we don't have that window that we're looking out against, all that does is try and have us try and shove a square peg into a round hole, which is, how do I fix it today? You can't. Time is finite in a given day, so we need to give ourselves that bigger window to

Brooke Schnittman: 19:30

work with. Yeah, I am a complete believer of one week planner as well. And to your point, sometimes I get into Tuesday and I'm like, Oh no, I haven't planned my week, and I can start the anxiety spiral a bit like, Oh, I'm in reactive mode. What task should I grab at? And that's when I take the and for me, at this point, I'm very lucky, and I will admit I know that it's a privilege to be this lucky, to have your own business and be able to plan. Plan and be in control of your plan. And like you, I was not someone who was a planner, but now it takes me five minutes. You know, I have my tasks, I have my appointments, and I'm able to put the task in and have that room available. But for someone who is so over scheduled, and they see it when they like the let's say they follow your process, your 10 step process. What is it that they need to do in order to be able to follow this and have those holes?

Megan Sumrell: 20:35

Yeah, and you know, if there is not a simple answer, and it is what people don't want to hear, because I get this question all the time, like, okay, Megan, I'm on step three, and my calendar is already full. What do I do? And this is why, the way I teach the weekly planning, it's subtly allowing you to fill your calendar in Priority orders that we're making sure things like your commitments and obligations are in there first, so on and so forth. But it's very similar to if we think about our finances, right? If someone were to look at their bank account and there is literally no money in it, and they have no credit cards, right? And maybe all they have is $100 in their hand. It's very tangible, and it's easy to see, well, I can't buy that, right? I can't I physically don't have the money for it. We need to think about time the same way we think about our finances. But it's harder because it's not as as visual. So just as if someone were to go to a financial person and say, I'm $50,000 in debt, what do I do? They're gonna say, well, our number one stop is to assess where is your money going today, right? How much is available each to you, each month or each week? Where are you currently spending it? And now we need to align this into what's actually going to fit, which means you're going to have to stop buying some certain things or change your lifestyle or whatever. The same is true with our time. Is if we are continually overbooked and over scheduled. This is a sign for us that something needs to come off of our plate. Yes, and that might be in the form of transferring it to someone else. It might be in a form of outsourcing, outsourcing, if you are able to, I know a lot of women that do swaps, so that way no money's being exchanged. But it's like services can be being exchanged that they I do this much better than you do, or quicker, or whatever that looks like, or it can even just be a I'm going to pause this for now. It doesn't mean forever, but maybe all five of these projects can no longer be worked on at this time, and so I'm going to choose to say, I'm going to pause on this one for now, but then I'm going to come back to it. And this is why doing a plan where it's visible on a calendar with actual time slots instead of a task list, is so it's good and it's bad. It's great because it's going to show you real quick what's possible and what's not, so that you don't get overbooked and over scheduled. But then the uncomfortable part means we have to learn to let some things go or pause on them for a little bit.

Brooke Schnittman: 23:14

I have this acronym. I don't know if I'm calling it right, P, M, D, W, it's prioritize, eliminate, modify, delegate, and wait. So once you see there aren't that many gaps. So if we can take a step back for a second with all that, so now we're in like I'm planning, I see there's not enough holes. So I'm going to give it to someone else, swap all the amazing things that you recommend it. But to dig a little bit deeper, I would love to know, how do you work with women to say these things are your priority, or how do they tell you these things are their priority? Are you looking at three months and working backwards what's happening?

Megan Sumrell: 23:59

So a couple different things, because I will have women come to me and be like, I need, I need your help prioritizing. And my answer is, always, I can't prioritize for you. I don't know what your you know. I don't know your life. I don't know your core values, I don't know the realities of your family. I don't know all of that, but what I can at least do is to guide you through a much easier prioritization process. So first, I would just want to give you a tactical one. If you just have a long list of stuff and we're trying to prioritize it. So let's say maybe there's, you know, 50 things on your list, and you're like, how do I prioritize this? Again, looking at 50 things and then saying, which one of these goes at the top? I couldn't do that. That'll, I mean, that would and then do it again for number two. So if you are looking at a list and wanting to do a quick prioritization, there's a really powerful way that's going to get you 95% of the way there. And if you, if timers don't create anxiety for you, because I know for some like my daughter, timers are. Or a recipe for disaster. For others, they're motivating. So if a timer is motivating for you, you could get a timer out, and what you're going to do is take the very first two things on your list, only those two, and you have three seconds to say which one of these two is more important, all right, and move whichever one to the top, then you take the one below it and the one after that. So again, you're only ever looking at two. And you'd say, Okay, now with these two, which one of these two is most important? And if so, that would be that one that was number three down there. If number three moves up, then you'd say, now let me compare it to the one above it again, only ever looking two at a time, two at a time. Yeah. And so if you have a list of, you know, 50 something odd items, you'll be able to knock that out in less than 10 minutes, because you're, you just say, three seconds only. And if it's one where you're truly stuck and you're like, I don't know, then leave them exactly where they are, right? Because whether it's number eight or nine, who cares, as long as they're lumped together, I

Brooke Schnittman: 26:07

like how you say that, because when you are in survival mode, like the woman who has 50 things on their to do list and cannot plan yet, you don't ask yourself, why, right? You just do and you do and you do and you do to build that momentum and chip away at all of the 50 tasks that are done.

Megan Sumrell: 26:26

So then you have the space to then you have the space, and this gets you unstuck, too, right? If we're just frozen now, another lens that you can look at it is maybe you're brand new to planning. You're like Megan, I've got so many things out there, then I would say, Okay, go through the list and pull out any that have an actual set due date that is inflexible, right? Because there's probably things on your list that truly have a due date and things that don't, but you're like, I'd like to so let's get that list smaller by just looking at due date only. Then again, a timer, and you get to spend three seconds on each one to say, even if it's a due date, do I care if it doesn't get done? Think of it like a coupon, right? I've got a coupon for this thing. It expires tomorrow, but truth be told, I don't really need that, like I don't need the thing that I have the coupon for. So people fall into a false sense of have to because there's a date associated to it, but maybe it's something you don't really care about doing anyway. So you're like, who cares? I'm going to let the due date go because I really don't want to do X, Y or Z. But if you can shrink down your list of due date then I would say, focus on those first, because then those tend to be the things that are more urgent. If there's a, you know, an actual negative consequence, if the date isn't met, to at least get yourself into motion, then you can come back and look at all the things that don't have dates next to them, and go through that, you know, two at a time prioritization process as well.

Brooke Schnittman: 27:57

Yeah, I think also for the ADHD person body doubling, while that doing that two thing at a time is huge, having that accountability to just stay focused and following through on your list that you were mentioning. And also, I know we are talking about going backwards a little bit about, you know, we like the quick dopamine hits, and sometimes we won't do the thing that's the most important thing, which totally makes sense. And I would also like to say that for people with ADHD, sometimes that can bring us into momentum, to do the hard thing and the priority thing, like the reverse, eat the frog, instead of doing the important thing first, and then doing the non important things. So I'm curious on your thoughts on that. Well, yeah, and

Megan Sumrell: 28:47

this is definitely true for women in general as well, because of our hormones, right? So again, back to why, kind of I call them very masculine planning systems. They're really traditional ones. They're one of their ultimate goals is to get you designing what they call the perfect week, where you build a schedule for yourself that then you use week after week, like Tuesday mornings, I do meetings from nine to 12. Wednesdays, from two to four is when I create. Thursdays, is when I record content and I see people trying to create these, quote, perfect weeks? Well, that's wonderful if your hormones operate at the exact same level every single week, right? And so I this is why I see when they're like, I'm trying to build this perfect week, and it's not working for me. I'm like, of course it isn't working for you, because your energy levels are going to be different daily for some people, but absolutely weekly, and that's why I like to teach weekly planning in a way where our goal is not to create the perfect week for you, it's to give you a system that you use every week, and one of your inputs is, where is my energy today? So if you're someone that is a slower start, maybe. You notice I really don't hit the ground running solid till 11am and you know that about yourself then getting those short dopamine hit tasks done, first thing where you're knocking out seven or eight of them five minutes each, that then ramps you up into now I have the space to do my focused work. It's a 100% win, which is, again, why I hate the top three, where they're like, do the top three first? Like, oh my gosh no, because what if one of those is something that your energy, your body, does not do well till later in the day? Absolutely create a plan that supports that.

Brooke Schnittman: 30:37

Yes, you mentioned hormones, and I'm curious, for the luteal phase, for those who are still in their period, what do you recommend for people who are in low energy for a week before their period, and you know, they're tracking their hormones, and maybe they use the way that you do the planning for three weeks, but then what happens on

Megan Sumrell: 30:58

that fourth week? Yeah, so for people that really lean into trying to do cycle syncing with their planning, right? If they really have the awareness of that, if you have the luxury to do that, once we master weekly planning, I then teach a monthly planning process. And so if you are in tune with that, and you know your cycle, and you know you're going to have that week that is an input into your monthly planning process. So if you know you have projects, tasks, work, etc, that is going to require you at your best, and maybe the due dates are aligning on that luteal time, this is the perfect opportunity for you to move that up in priority and create a plan that says I'm actually going to get this done a week early, because if I wait until the week that it's due, it's going to be really, really, really hard for me to do that. Now, I know that's not always possible, right? Maybe you have a job where you're you can't look at your boss and go, I'm in my luteal phase. I'll get that done in 10 days.

Brooke Schnittman: 32:00

Like, would that be nice to work right now?

Megan Sumrell: 32:03

But what I encourage people to do is, again, if you have the awareness of your cycle, is proactively block the time that you need well ahead during that week, meaning maybe go in and on your calendar right say no to evening events, like say no to lunch dates, whatever you need as your visual cue of, oh yeah, this is coming that week. So this is I'm going to make sure that I have put my visual reminders to say no thank you to any stuff that I do have control over, so that the things I truly don't have control over is what I can be focusing on for that week, and I'm not overloading myself with a dinner out and this and that, if those things are draining for you during that week,

Brooke Schnittman: 32:49

do you coach people also in working in their relationships, with their tasks and their planning as well? Because it can be easier to gain control of ourselves, right? But you and I just spoke about being in a relationship and having kids and also in a neurodivergent household.

Megan Sumrell: 33:10

Yes. What do you do with that? So it's been interesting to watch the journey. So we've had women going through the Top program now for almost seven years, and what I'm starting to hear more and more of now is a woman will go through the program and I we do teach some skills around what I call creating a family communication center, because everyone's planning is individual, right? My weekly plan supports me. My family does not need to operate off my weekly plan, but there's stuff relating to them that impact my plan, and there's stuff on my calendar that's going to impact them. And so one of the things we do teach in there is, how do you create what I call your family communication center that supports you not being the daily Chief Information Officer and coordination officer for your household. But it's been interesting. A lot of women will go through the program and then they're like, I actually made my husband sit down and watch it with me again, because now, like, he's seen how much I've leveled up. Like, I'm relaxed, I'm this, I'm that, and so now I'm starting to, like, they'll start using the language with them. And so a lot of these guys, and I've had even men, reach out to us and go, No, this is a program for women, but am I allowed to take it? I'm like, of course you're allowed to take it, but you're going to hear a lot about the mental load and being the default parent and the primary caregiver. And so I love it when I hear that couples go through it together, because it's also if you are in I mean, I am very openly the default parent here in our household because of my husband's job. It is just not one that supports that. But when you learn how to visualize what the mental load actually means and all of the moving parts of things that you're doing, it can be a game changer with how you can. Educate that with your partners. So like, one of the things that I do, as I call it, my household coo time, and this really helped me out a lot. My daughter is both ADHD and autistic, and so there was, you know, she's 15 now, but when she was younger, there were just a lot of moving parts on therapies and supports. And, you know, just a lot, a lot to stay out, not to mention just the books and the knowledge. And, you know, how do I support her? And, of course, now, how funny is this that I just completely lost my train of thought, Oh, my household COO, tasks, yeah, but I don't have ADHD. To the best of our knowledge. I kept testing. I'm like, do I but I does not appear that I do, but we all know there's stuff that comes at us all day from kids, from work, from emails from schools, right? And so I would try to have a little pocket of time every day to stay on top of that. Okay, let me go read all the school emails. Okay, let me do all this. And it was exhausting, like exhausting. And so instead, plus, it was keeping it all on me, and it was very invisible to the family, because I was just quietly doing it and fitting it in. So I've now switched and I have my weekly household coo time, and I do it on the weekends, and it goes on the family communication center, so on our skylight calendar says, When am I having my household coo time? And so if my daughter comes home with something from school, or we're talking about something as a family or forms come in, or whatever, I tell them all, hey, I'll get to that during my household coo time this weekend. And so I'm calling it what it is. If my husband comes in and is, hey, can we do blah, blah, blah taxes? Yeah, I'm going to do that during household coo time this weekend. And it's on the calendar, and it can be easily three hours every single weekend. And so what, what this allows us to do is on Saturday morning or Sunday, whenever I'm going to do it, we usually go for a walk together with our dogs, and I will tell them, here's all the things that have piled up this week for my household coo time. And I talk about it not from a I'm nagging or whatever. It's from a very comfortable place. It's on the calendar, and sometimes it might be Hey, you know what? Let me go ahead and do those two things, then if you're working on that. And so it's helped kind of give a little bit more equality with that labor. But then it's also because it's on the calendar. I'm like, now this means that anything, any other needs that come up for our family, I'm working. I'm not scrolling my phone. I'm not playing on, you know, Candy Crush. And so the expectation is now you are now in charge of everything else in the house, and then it's just given me that lightness of not feeling like I'm jumping in and out of that stuff every single day, because a lot of that kind of stuff can queue up until the weekend, right? I can read all the school emails over the weekend. I can fill out the doctor's forms and the referral prescriptions and all that kind of stuff, but making it very visible and calling it what it is, and now my family knows what that means, has really created a massive spotlight on just how much work that is.

Brooke Schnittman: 38:10

How do you protect your structure and your mindfulness and your exercise, since that's equally as important in being able to attend to the things on your list. Yes, do you plan it and try to block it and not let the other tasks go into that time?

Megan Sumrell: 38:29

Absolutely, and this is very uncomfortable for women at first, because most people and I used to be this way as well. We treat the rest the downtime, the whatever, as the reward for when we get everything done, which is why we never get it, because everything is never going to get done, or we collapse from sheer exhaustion, and then we feel guilty because we're not quote, being productive, right? We are so conditioned to have our worth interwoven with our productivity, I am worthy if I am productive. So the weekly planning system that I teach. The third thing that goes in your calendar, so the first thing is your commitments, the stuff you've already said yes to at specific dates and times that are really hard to change, right? The work meeting, the dentist appointment, whatever. The second thing that goes on your calendar, which I guarantee you nobody has on their calendar today, is blocking off the time in your life where you're busy, but you know you're not going to be getting anything done on your task list. So for example, I usually leave the house at three o'clock to go pick my daughter up from school. When we come home from school, I know if I pretend that I'm going to get anything done from that after school window till dinner, it's never going to happen. There will be a school project. There will be a meltdown that needs to happen. There will just be a conversation that needs to happen. There'll be homework that needs like, there will always be needs. There. Yeah. So I call that your unavailable time. It's where, and for most people, it falls into when are you in caregiving mode and you want to give it your full attention, right?

Brooke Schnittman: 40:10

Or you're going to be that parent who just does the work when their family's around,

Megan Sumrell: 40:14

and yeah, and then you're half in and half out. So like every day, from three till dinner, my calendar is blocked. I say I'm in mod mode that's or whatever needs to be happening. Then the third thing that goes on your calendar before we start throwing in all the tasks is the time for yourself. So I am putting in my personal time into my calendar before I'm tackling anything that would fall on that on the traditional to do list. And this doesn't have to be huge. It can be just a 30 minute pocket of time, right? Maybe it's I'm not going to work at my desk over lunch. Maybe it's I'm going to sit outside with a book and I'm gonna eat lunch for 30 minutes. Or I started taking cello lessons a couple years ago. So for me, it's when am I stepping away and practicing my cello by myself for 30 minutes? Because that fills me up, and I enjoy it. So that's actually going into my calendar at specific times before I layer in all the rest of the stuff. Because if I try and fill it in after I've layered in everything, there will be no space for it. And then what's really nice with that weekly plan is maybe I'm walking upstairs to go practice the cello and then I'm feeling anxious about this project that's not done well. When we create a plan for the week, it allows me to go back and look and say, No, Megan, you're okay. See you're working on that project tomorrow. Remember, we've got time for it. Then thank you brain for trying to remind me, but right now I get to go do this guilt free, because I'm going to work on that thing tomorrow, and if you're just working in List mode, you don't have that tool that supports you in showing no, no, it's okay. You don't need to worry about it right now, we're dealing with that tomorrow or two days from now. So thank you, brain. Appreciate the reminder you can check out now we're good.

Brooke Schnittman: 42:05

Yes, you can actually be present in the moment and feel comfortable and trust your calendar that it's going to work for you. Yes. So you're 40 to 70% more likely to do the thing if you schedule it, that's what the stats have

Megan Sumrell: 42:22

shown, and they show if you write it on paper instead of a digital calendar, you're even more likely to follow your plan. I've read that one recently. I was like, I love this. I love my paper planner.

Brooke Schnittman: 42:35

I love my paper planner too. Yes, and everyone is different, so that's why I didn't even ask you. I mean, some people do paper, some people do digital, some people do both. I do both.

Megan Sumrell: 42:43

I mean, I have to do a hybrid. I think anyone working today has got, I mean, there's stuff that's on my digital but what I call my command center, where the full detailed plan goes, is on my paper planner, right?

Brooke Schnittman: 42:55

So all of these strategies are all well and good. And how often are you looking at your list? Because without knowing what's on your list and following it and looking at your calendar, it likely doesn't exist. I am looking

Megan Sumrell: 43:11

at it all day long. And this is why this is one of the things when people are trying to decide digital or paper, I'm like both work just fine if you want to do detailed weekly planning digitally. Great if you want to do it on paper, great. But here is the deciding factor, where are you when you are making the yes, no decisions about your time and what does your lifestyle look like? So maybe you're someone that you're like, I love digital I want to have a digital calendar, but you have a job or a lifestyle that has you all over the place all the time, meaning the only tool you have is your phone. Digital is going to set you up for disaster, because on your phone you can't see that week at a glance, right? You're stuck operating in day to day mode. Now, maybe you're someone like when I was in corporate life. Still, I was fully digital because I was in a chair staring at a massive monitor all day long, and I could pull up my Google Calendar weekly view, and that's where I was sitting when I was making decisions about my time, when requests for my time were coming in, I could see everything I needed to see to make a good decision about it. Now my life is way more fluid. You know, I only work about four or four and a half hours a day, and then I'm not at my desk. So that's why I love a small, portable paper planner. So this allows me to if suddenly, you know, my daughter comes in, hey, can we do blah, blah, blah, Saturday, I don't have to go back to my desk log into my computer, right? I can just my calendar is always open right here. I can just run in and look at it really, really quickly, so both will work. I'm not here to say you have to do paper, you have to do digital, but you need to pick the tool that is instantly accessible for you at that full week view for the life. That you live.

Brooke Schnittman: 45:01

One thing that has worked really well for me with using the paper planner is if I'm on the go and I think of something and I don't have my paper planner in front of me, I'll set a reminder, a voice memo, reminder to myself, but I'll make sure it goes off at a time that I know I'll be looking at my phone and I'm not crazed, yep. So this way I can go back to my planner and put it on my list and then make it go into my week somehow. Do you do that too?

Megan Sumrell: 45:30

Yeah, what I do? And if I'm going to be out, like, for instance, maybe I'm going on travel, and it's not work related travel, so I'm like, I don't need I don't want to lug my planner with me. I'll just take a picture of my weekly plan, so then I've got, I can pull it up on my phone if I want to reference it. Yeah, but if I'm out and about and I think of something, or remember something, I'm like, I've got, if it has to be this week, I send myself an email. I'm old. I still I have a great email processing system, so I know if I and my family knows that, like, if just this morning, my daughter and I was driving her to driving her to school, and she reminded me, she's like, Oh, Mom, I really want to do blah, blah, blah. And I was like, you know, the deal? Send me an email or it isn't going to happen. Like, that's how you get on my book.

Brooke Schnittman: 46:12

So Right? And she's like, how it works for you?

Megan Sumrell: 46:14

Yeah, and if it needs my help, so texting me does not work, because the text notification comes in, comes out, and I have forgotten about it, so she knows if she if she is requesting my time, it has to come in through an email. If we're not at home or I'm have access to my planner.

Brooke Schnittman: 46:31

I love that. One thing that came to mind is, especially for a lot of ADHD people, is when they go on vacation, right? They're putting their planner side, disrupting their weekly flow. What do you recommend to them when they come back from vacation to get back into that momentum?

Megan Sumrell: 46:53

Yes. So I tell everyone that anytime you are booking a true trip, right? Not not a one day or but like a vacation. Is anytime I book a lengthy trip. As soon as that trip goes on my calendar, I go right in and I call I do what I call book ending it. So the day before my trip, I go block every open space I have on my calendar, I go in and block it so that nobody can book time with me, and then my first full day at home. So maybe it's a vacation. We're flying home Saturday or Sunday. I will go in and block my entire Monday on my calendar, meaning nobody can make an appointment with me. My team doesn't schedule stuff, anything like that, and what that gives you like we my husband, I just went away for I stepped away from work for almost 11 full days from the business, and I truly never looked at my computer once. It's fantastic. And so of course, as you're flying home, we all get like that, oh my gosh. Like, what's waiting for me? Well, because I always have that full day. My first full Monday back from our trip, my calendar was completely clear. And so then I have my own systematic way that I like to get caught up on everything. So it's like, okay, first, I have five different email accounts, so I go through and process each email account right, addressing, assessing all of that. Then I have to go check out our project management thing to see, okay, what happened that I need to get caught up on there? And in the course of three hours, I was completely caught back up after having stepped away totally for 11 days. But if I had not blocked and I could do it comfortably, I didn't feel anxious. I'm like, I got all day to get on top of where everything is, and at the end of the day, I finish by creating my plan for the rest of the week. But if we don't bookend that, what's going to happen is you're going to walk right into fire drill mode. Oh, yeah. And so that's the biggest gift you can give yourself, is the minute you have booked a trip and do this in corporate. I mean, I did this when I worked full time in corporate. I would block my entire calendar. I didn't say why, and if they were those people are like, Why is your whole day block, I would go in and create, like, a 90 minute block, then a 30 just make it look like I had, like, a bunch of because there's those people. We all know they're out there. But I would find a way to protect that entire first day back in the office so that no meetings were expected of me, so I could just spend the day getting

Brooke Schnittman: 49:17

caught back up. I love that also. The book ends great and going back, let's say, even if it's a three day weekend, right, it's not a full 11 day. People with ADHD have a hard time getting off their routine and coming back and then, even if they have that bookend, right? So one thing I've recommended to clients is find the easiest thing to start your morning with right to build that dopamine again,

Megan Sumrell: 49:43

I would encourage people, if you have a morning routine, which I know a lot of ADHD ers have been coached on, like, hey, let's find a systematic way to start your day. And maybe you have several others. Is maybe, as you slow roll back in, pick the one or the two routines that you say, Okay, today I'm. Doing these, and it's okay if all the others don't get done, and then maybe tomorrow I'll layer in the next one. It doesn't have to be this full body reset, right? It can be gentle, yeah, gentle, ease back in. Kind of like the gym when you don't work out for a long time, right? If I were to go back and lift weights as I did before, it would not be like I will need to slow roll my way back.

Brooke Schnittman: 50:24

It would be like crap. Yes, yes. So what's one thing that you want listeners to take away, especially for those who just feel like they're never succeeded and execute it.

Megan Sumrell: 50:41

Yeah, here's what I want everyone to hear. I am a planning expert. I've been doing this for years. I am pretty darn positive My plan has never gone the way I built it. When I build the plan, the goal is not to create a plan that gets executed exactly the way you planned it. Because if that's your definition of success, you're gonna maybe need to, like, go move to an isolated island, turn off all technology like, find some way for the world to not come at you, especially if you have kids, right? So when we can change our relationship with the plan, and I like to think of it as, this is my roadmap for how I believe I'm getting through the week right, just as if you were to get in your car and plug in a destination that maybe was a three day drive, be like, here's how we're going, and then maybe four hours later, there's an accident, and so your GPS reroutes you right, and now maybe you're going a slightly different way. The goal is when we're creating our plan to prevent us from getting over booked, prevent us from getting over scheduled, and to support us in making good decisions about how we're spending our time, because we build the plan. We're doing it from a place of here are the things I'm deciding are important that I'm going to be focusing on this week. Here is how I believe I'm getting from Monday to Sunday, or whatever your seven days are. Then recognize life is going to happen, and so when it does, your plan now shifts to be the tool that supports you? To say, Great. What shifts do I want to make now that still support me and making sure the most important things are getting done? Or is there something that maybe I now want to go ahead and take swap out? This thing has come in, and now I'm ready to let that go, so when we can change our understanding of this, plan is a tool that supports you from getting overbooked, that helps you make good choices when life throws you a curve ball, it's not a report card at the end of the week to say, Did I execute this perfectly? I mean, you and I are talking here. It's Wednesday. I've already had to change twice what my Thursday and Friday look like from what I built in my plan. So you're not writing

Brooke Schnittman: 53:08

in pen, huh? I do, but

Megan Sumrell: 53:11

they're erasable. They're the best. It's the friction, fine tip, color felt pens, and I love them. So about my color so good. Yeah, but yeah, you are if someone said that you build a plan that you can follow perfectly, then I would be a failure at planning. And I am not.

Brooke Schnittman: 53:29

Yeah, what I love being someone who has planned the same exact way for six years, no joke, has used the same planner, same process weekly is knowing, and I'm not here to brag. I'm here to say that this is possible because I have lived it right, and I use similar strategies as you knowing when you're starting to spiral or get off course, like recognizing those triggers for me, I know it's if I start double booking and all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my God, I need to cancel last minute. I know that I have need, I need to slow down and re look at things, because I am being reactive rather than proactive, and the planning has gotten away from me. So I love just knowing what your trigger is too.

Megan Sumrell: 54:24

Yeah. And for me, it's if there's two weeks in a row where the same things didn't get done that I'd plan to do. That's my Okay. Megan, what's going on here?

Brooke Schnittman: 54:35

Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. So someone buys your top planner, then what?

Megan Sumrell: 54:40

What did they do? Okay, so there is the program. Is really, it's an online, self paced, course, it's lifetime access, because last thing I do is then, like, add the stress of and now you only have 30 days to learn the planning system. So when you invest in the program again, you have access to it forever, and you actually get the physical planner for free with it. So. It's not mandatory. You don't have to use it. You can be digital or use another planner that as long as it has the correct format with it, people always are like, Well, how long is it going to take to master it? Right? That is totally up to every individual person in terms of the pace at which they go through it. So it is a course that people will go through, digest and be implementing well after six weeks. And then for other people that just are like, Hey, I only have 30 minutes a week to dedicate to learning and implementing this, that's fine. It just means that it may take you a little bit longer till you're there, but there's no wrong pace to work at. I would rather see someone say I can invest 30 minutes of time a week, and make that incremental progress, then have someone say, my life's too busy. I'll wait till things slow down. Because, guess what, they're not slowing down. And then four years will have gone by, and you will have missed the opportunity to kind of get up and get going.

Brooke Schnittman: 55:57

So what you're saying is, you don't just hand someone a planner and say, good luck.

Megan Sumrell: 56:01

Oh my gosh, no. And a planner, I am the first and I sell planners, so hear me when I tell you this, a planner is never going to change your life, and a planner is never going to teach you how to plan, and a planner is never going to prevent you from being overwhelmed. You have to have a foundational, repeatable system to build a plan that includes the realities of your life. So if you have ever bought a planner that says this is going to get you organized, they're lying. It will not a physical planner is not going to get you organized.

Brooke Schnittman: 56:39

I love it. Where can people find your course and ultimately, the tool of the planner to go along with it?

Megan Sumrell: 56:46

Yeah. So the course is just called the Top program, T, O, P, stands for time management, organization and productivity. You can learn all about it at the top program.com, and you know, if you're kind of like, I think I want to learn a little bit more about what does this planning framework look like? I have an app in both the App Store and Google Play. It's called the pink B, all one word. Just search for the pink B with no spaces. And in there are two free mini training courses that anyone can get access to. And in one of them, it really introduces you to those three core pillars, all the components of the program, and gives you a little kind of intro into what this weekly planning process looks like. I love that.

Brooke Schnittman: 57:27

So you're setting them up to not fail. And for those of you who are listening and don't see the show notes, we'll put it all in the show notes, but it's B, E, E, as in, like Bumblebee as

Megan Sumrell: 57:36

an actual Bumblebee, yes. And what's nice is, I always encourage people, Hey, go do that first, because one, you'll get a style of my teaching to make sure it resonates with them right. And then they kind of get a future pacing of, okay, this is what this looks like when we implement these tools.

Brooke Schnittman: 57:52

I love it. Well. Thank you so much for joining us and dropping all of these nuggets to all the women who are listening. Really appreciate that, and we know that a lot of us try to stay attached to a system, and that system just doesn't work for us. So it's nice to know that this is a female made system that taps into your femininity, it taps into your hormones, it taps into your energy level, and it's made for emails. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of successful with ADHD. I hope it helps you on your journey, and if you need any additional support for you or a loved one with ADHD, feel free to reach out to us at coaching with brooke.com and all social media platforms at coaching with Brooke. And remember, it's Brooke with an E. Thanks again for listening. See you next time you.